Napoleon’s marshals and President Trump’s civil servants

Podcast: Start the Week · BBC Radio 4

Opublikowano: 2026-10-19

What happens when the relationship between leaders and those entrusted to implement policy breaks down? On Radio 4's weekly discussion programme, Adam Rutherford is joined by three guests to explore power, loyalty and the often unseen people who make complex systems work. The bestselling writer Michael Lewis discusses Blockers: Rebels in the Deep State, his account of the civil servants who found themselves resisting attempts by the Trump administration to dismantle parts of the American state. He asks what happens when public service is devalued, and why we rarely notice the institutions around us until they are...